45 comments on “Land East Of Horndean Update

  1. So a perfectly good free flowing roundabout is going to be subjected to the same nonsense as the London road junction?

    • Entirely agree Andy and I have just written to express my concern to EHDC. Why spend an enormous amount of money and inconvenience drivers to improve pedestrian access for a handful of pedestrians that would use it? They can always walk round using Havant/Portsmouth Road i.e. there is an alternative route. Roundabouts keep traffic moving and traffic lights create build up. We can see it so why can’t the Highways Agency?

  2. This is by far Not A Done Deal, there are supporters outside of the area of this Massive development, you can still air your views direct, up until first week of April go to EHDC planning site.you will have all recieved letters about this, Locals Must do this because I belive we are being hoodwinked over this site. Remember Trust not Tricks and there is a lot of trickery going on here, most of the promised play/pleasure and social usage plans will not happen, just as he has not in other developments in our area. The biggest concerns here are Traffic congestion with over 1400 vehicles minimum,there is congestion now with Havant Road being used as a short cut to avoid London Road,just visit it between 4pm and 7pm, the lack of confidence regarding contamination to our water supply and the large anti social situation which unfortunately comes with social housing. The surgery will not cope, the car park is much to small, yet again trickery by the developer Linden Homes.This is by far Not a done Deal.

  3. Why is it that developers do not fulfil all of their commitments made in an application? The answer must be that they can. Isn’t it about time the rules/regulations/laws are changed? Otherwise, we are committing ourselves and our children, and our childrens’ children, to vast tracts of housing into which residents are squeezed, with practically no garden, minimal parking space for owners’ car plus a visitor or two?? e.g. new development on Havant Road, as well as each application we have seen locally over the past 2 years (thanks to Guy).

    We, as a society, are really letting ourselves down in terms of our childrens’ futures as they do not have the space to play/run/walk outside. ‘Free play’ is vital for children to develop physically and mentally, rather than being sat at a computer/laptop/ipad etc., or under constant supervision by adults. And…social housing: isn’t that codified – meaning: “Let’s build some really small homes with no gardens, and a tiny parking space. We won’t be around in 15 years’ time to know how those residents in shoeboxes managed to exist.” e.g. the Brewery ‘development’. Disgusting, and the ruination of village centre.

    Therefore, isn’t it time that more stringent controls on space should be brought in? We as residents here care about our environment, and want to preserve it. Developers do not care about such matters, why should they, they won’t have to live with their bad planning.

    It’s really time for changes to be brought in which actually protect OUR wildlife and OUR heritage, rather than the pockets of developers. Once the developers move in, our countryside will vanish forever.

  4. Yes agree that if, and only its an if and this massive site does get approval, the traffic lights will cause much more problems and traffic delays, a free flowing roundabout always works better. These so called planners know this but see a need to create jobs which are not needed. But folks lets be really serious here, this Developmemt will not work, it has failure written right through it. This area cannot take this size of development, those who are pushing for this think that future developments in their area will not happen, please wake up. I say now that the huge amount of vehicles will drive through the Havant Road in and out of Horndean village, its happening already with this stretch being used as a rat run, come on please start making commen sence rule the day or you will all live to regret this site being developed and then it will be too late. We can have pockets of small sites on Brown fill and in areas that dont have an impact like this one will have, we dont need to build this many houses, we are being spun a lie. Stop feeling intiminated and fight for what is right and just.

    • Hi Steve. Some comments on the post which I hope give you some useful information and balanced responses to other readers:

      I fully agree that traffic lights will not help on this roundabout and have given this feedback. Experience on the Catherington Lane Roundabout tells us that local views and opinions are usually the best. We do need to make sure there is a safe crossing access but this can be better served by the bridge over the motorway 200m to the south with path improvements through Hazleton Common and I raised this with the team at EHDC 2 months ago as a good area to plan footpath improvements in. Feedback on this would be welcome.

      Im not sure the remark that “‘so called planners’ know the roundabout is not needed but are creating jobs that are not needed either…” is at all accurate. It is the Highways Agency that are asking for the lights on the roundabout as explained in the blog article, not the planners. The current unemployment rate in the UK is 1.86 million and while this has fallen it still needs to fall further. Im not sure that a plot to create jobs with the Horndean Roundabout Trafficlight Proposal is going to make much of a dent. The plans though for LEOH, if approved, will bring a large number of apprenticeships, skilled jobs and improve the local economy. Making sure we have first time jobs and careers for local young people is a key priority for us.

      “This development will not work it has failure written right through it” Im curious to understand some backed up reasoning for this…

      “The area can not take this size of development” the 700 homes are our needs to 2028. This is about a 1.5% increase per year which is generally in line with our population growth. This is long term planning to ensure communities grow in pace with the needs. The development, if approved, is likely to be built out over a 8 year period with 2 house builders, each building about 40 to 50 homes per year. We need to make sure the community facilities are delivered in the right order with the homes.

      “Those that are pushing for this think future developments will not happen”. The SHLAA sites that have been proposed and rejected will become very safe against development once the allocations plan is formally approved and provided we meet our housing allocation numbers we can reject these planning applications confidently. In Horndean the last major development we had was Stonechat Road. Between 2001 and 2011 we then only built on average 20 new homes a year in Horndean. As a District Councillor we also see some confidential ‘pre-application sites’. I am very happy to state that the 4 ‘further down the pipeline’ have now just been dropped by the developers as they can see the allocation plan setting the policy clearly for the next 15 years.

      “The huge amount of vehicles will run through Havant Road and out of Horndean Village.” There will be some increase in traffic, this is inevitable, but being located next to the motorway junction the increase is going to be minimal, the least worst option. Developments like ‘Gales Park’ in Havant Road are going to add far more traffic in the village. EHDC opposed this development but the Planning Inspector overturned our refusal. Did I note correctly from the article in The Post you are a resident in this new development…

      I fully agree with building on brownfield land, but invite you to tell us where it all is. Horndean, Clanfield and Rowlands Castle have none. The closest is Keydell which would become classified as ‘Brownfield land’ if the nursery were to move out of the village as the nursery owners hoped. This would see the tragic loss of a key local employer, key landscape land and significant traffic through the village with no additional community facilities or employment.

      Steve, Im not sure yet if you are a political activist, or someone in the community who cares and wants to improve our community. Time will tell on the first, but if you are the second, and I hope you are, then the Parish Council and several other organisations like Horndean Business Network, HIND etc need good people who passionately care to come forward and look at how we get the best out of developers, how we make sure areas like the Gales Development make a positive contribution to the village and if you are interested in making a difference then I would be very happy to spend some time with you to tell you more? There are too few people who come forward to actually make a difference. Let me know.

      Best wishes, Guy.

      • I am concerned about the area I live in, I have lived in this area on and off due to work for some 30 plus years, Clanfield. Rowlands Castle, Waterlooville, Lindford, Liphook, Liss, Porstmouth. I still don’t agree that the proposed 700 site is the best option, it is the easy option for many as it serves the planners well and those that live in areas on the fringe. The work it will bring to the area long term is no different if the houses were spread more throughout the area. I dont believe the social sites will happen, we are being fed carrots which quite a lot take the bite. There is too much trickery as I said before Trust Not Tricks. If and its a very big if, this massive development does get approved Havant Road and Rowlands Castle Road will come to a grid lock with traffic and accidents will happen, this area cannot be made to take this size of housing. We all need to get very real with what we are trying to achieve. There are pockets of Brownfield like wise there are pockets of large parcels of land that can take small build like Linden Homes at Drift Rd which does not inpact on the area. Yes I do live in Gales Park, never hide that fact, agreeing to purchase before I knew about the 700 however i still purchased in a small development because I believe that Horndean as it is is a great village to live in. I don’t want to see that change to a Town. I believe its those that don’t live in Horndean that want it to. Guy do you want to see Horndean lose its village status and grow to a Town?
        If you really think that the extra traffic that will come with this proposed massive development will not use Havant Road and Rowlands Castle Road in and out of Horndean you clearly are wearing the wrong type of glasses. Its a cut through road now. And with 8 years of building and the extra traffic that will bring, this whole area will resemble a building site.
        We don’t believe Keydells is going anywhere other than improving their current site which is evident.

      • Hi Steve, Thank you for the reply.

        Where to build is a very contentious issue. The community at large, myself included, would like to see our semi rural identity protected and no large scale house building at all. The reality is though we need to provide for a growing population, including first time buyers and smaller properties to down size into in older age and to try to get the best community view we organised a consultation on where to build in Horndean. The overwhelming response with 95% of the community view was Hazleton and Pyle farms. I would not agree it is the ‘easy option’. It is the site that has the least impact on our community, and the only site that would come forward with the raft of community facilities we have on the table. The Drift Road development and other smaller sites will not deliver the school or other facilities we need.

        As to whether the social sites will happen or not, I fully disagree with you. The planning condition has something called a Section 106 agreement which is a legal obligation to deliver community contributions whether money or real facilities. Jubilee Hall and Jubilee Park were community benefits from the Stonechat Road development. Real bricks and mortar. The new surgery building as well as some £400,000 in community benefits comes out of the Gales Development. Real Bricks and Mortar. The Parish Council has some £750,000 for community improvements at its disposal from the recent developments including Gales Park. Real Money. When you say “Trickery” there is simply no basis for your view.

        As to brownfield land there is perhaps space to build 20 homes on ‘Brownfield Land’ in Horndean and that is it. It is a great argument to ‘only build on brownfield land’ but the reality is we do not have any. Whitehill and Borden is a great Brownfield site and EHDC are making the best of this with 4,000 new homes being built there. You also need to remember that the only sites that can be considered in the allocation plan are the SHLAA sites. There is a link to the latest sites on the right hand side of this blog and you can then see the limited options.

        It is essential for us that Horndean does not change into a town but the more we build up areas inside the village like Gales Park, White Dirt Farm, Chalk Hill Road and the farmland along Lovedean then the more likely it is our rural identity will go and that threat will come.

        You have suggested that I might need different glasses if I think none of the traffic that comes with the development will use Havant and Rowlands Castle Roads. That is not a correct summary what I have stated in any article. The LEOH site, if approved, would have the least impact on our village roads. The traffic for Hazleton and Pyle Farms is right on the motorway junction so trips to Portsmouth, London, and even Morrisons are going to have the least impact. Development on Gales Park and the sites you propose puts 100% of all of the vehicle movements through the village and surrounding roads. That is clearly worse.

        Steve, I hope you appreciate the irony that you are a new buyer in a development site in the centre of the village the community and EHDC did not want for exactly the reasons you state (Town, Traffic) and then complain about development.

        Finally, I can see you are very interested in the community and that is great. One of the problems with Localism is that too few people are and even fewer come forward to make a difference. As my last comment below if you are interested in finding out more about how to get involved locally then I am very happy to spend some time and speak about it with you. Id also be very happy to go through the SHLAA sites, Allocation Plan, and the other key local community issues. Just let me know if you want that coffee.


      • Hi Guy,
        Got more time now to try and reply .
        The reason I believe you had,as you say, 95% of the community at large view Hazelton and Pyle farms, was two fold, most of the 95% do not live in Horndean village and the others have been misled. I don’t believe that you will get the same positive result today. We are now aware of water contamination concerns that could effect over 300,000 units, the effect on protected species, Gas mains etc.Access roads, traffic lights on the large roundabout.
        Have many people shown their concerns on the EHDC site as recently invited by letters to all local households? The cut of date being the 6th of April 2015.
        It is an easy option to build a massive development in one site. It cuts out all the hard work in finding other spaces to build on, it takes the problem away from areas outside of Horndean Village.
        This is my point (one of them) its too big, the site to be built on might be acceptable but its too massive. You could build 50 -100 homes plus the school plus the other social areas. Smaller pockets will use the school and the social areas if they ever got built .By having a section 106 in place does not mean the builder will stick to the original approved plan. You know this and some (not a lot) of the public do.
        We have over 120+ units at Gales Brewery, we have 60 at Gales Park with approval for another 15 on what was original a Care/Surgery building, this was the original plan but was changed by the builder. Linden Homes also changed the plans originally approved.
        You say that there is perhaps space for 20 homes on brownfield land in the Horndean area, I will look into this, so jury still out.
        Gales Park residents go in and out of Horndean and use Horndean facilities, the traffic that thunders along Havant Road and coming through from either motorway slip road to the North of Horndean, rather than come off at Morrison motor way junction, drive onto either Rowlands Castle or Leigh Park continuing on the Havant Road, stand or park your car at small round about at Hazleton farm and just monitor from say 4pm until about 7pm, and in reverse they come off the Morrison roundabout and thunder through Havant Rd, through the village and on to Clanfield or pick up the motorway junction off the London Rd.
        Guy are you trying to make us believe that the 1400 plus vehicles that will come off this massive development will not come along the Havant Road through Horndean Square and also add to the vehicles that come off Rowlands Castle Rd? Are you saying that they will all come off the motorway junction on the large roundabout and wait at the traffic lights to do so?
        Will speed bumps be placed along this part of the Havant Road, will the speed limit be reduced to 20mph along this part of the Havant Road?
        Gales Park was built on a parcel of land that was not serving a useful purpose any more, it was an overgrown field, people did not walk on it, or around it, no wild life was effected that we were aware of, no trees have been removed, it served itself ideally for a small development.
        Guy I still might have a drink with you but not just yet.

      • Steve, Im not sure where you think the 95% of respondents for where to build came from if it was not the parish of Horndean. Why would anyone bother to visit a consultation for housing needs that do not affect them?

        The water concerns are a simple issue to address. If Portsmouth Water remain concerned about the development then permission will not be granted. If they agree control measures with the developers that safeguard our water supply then the application may well have good reason for approval. The HSE has lifted its objection to the gas main as the developer has adjusted the layout of the site and for Bechsteins Bat, the ecologist has agreed plans with the developers that ensure the development has minimal impact on the habitat.

        As to ‘cutting out the hard work’ of finding other spaces to build on, or building in other areas this is completely contrary to the point you make yourself about traffic concerns. building anywhere else in the parish adds more traffic into the village.

        I think your view that Gales Park ‘served no useful purpose’ will not be met with agreement. It was an area of open space in the village that prevents our streetscene being filled with constant development and housing. It is vital that the remaining pockets of open space, whether publicly accessed or not, in our villages that separate the housing are kept to encourage wildlife and prevent us being fully built up.

      • Sorry to keep on about this Guy, cut off date for objections is the 8th April 2015, Guy have you read these objections? are you taking on board people who will be effected by this massive development? Do you realise the effect this will have on the wild life? Forget about the people today, start thinking about the people in the future, our children our grandchildren, no wild life, no wild flowers, only bricks and mortar. Lots of council tax, lots of traffic problems, lots of anti social problems. Possible water contamination! Again I repeat we do not need this size of development, 60 -100 max possible, still with the school, still with the social area and this may, just maybe we can still have our wild life, our smaller piece of country side, our clear air. You say that EHDC and you objected to Gales Park, which is on an unused parcel of sloping land yet you are pushing for this huge massive development and all the problems that will come with it, will EHDC?. Who is kidding who here Guy?.
        I can see you do good work for the area but this is not right, this is not just, this is not needed.
        If we controll our borders and just keep to local people wanting local houses, keeping to Brownfield sites as well as small pockets of say 12-20-50-100, we will provide. And Guy, you say 8 years to build this massive site, more like 10-12 even 15 years if approved on the scale you are seeking. It will take just over 2 years to complete Gales Park and that is for 75 units, and this is without a school, social areas, commercial units etc. I think we need a big push from the concerned objectors via the local press and sources like this, not our local MP who, like you wants this massive site built. We don’t have long, but with the Porstmouth Water Board and the Contamination Land officials, together with our sound reasoning from local people objecting, I believe common sense will prevale.
        Thanks Guy.

  5. Guy, I am happy to support you on any suggestion for an alternative to traffic lights on the roundabout. Just point me in the right direction.

    • Hi Jan, that’s brilliant. Making the comment to the planners that we need to consider alternative options to traffic lights will help. I suspect the waterlooville junction has a greater vehicle count but has no traffic lights! Guy

  6. Hi Guy, this massive development is starting to take over my free time! I don’t know how you manage to give so much of your time to all these local issues, it must be a full time job to you, either that or you are retired? Credit to you Guy. Guy I m getting concerned regarding the New School if this massive develment gets off the ground, this is a Primary school? Where do all the children go once they need junior schooling? Will they be bused to say Horndean School and if so is that school going to be able to take an extra potential 700 ? On the employment units, will these be taken once built or will they stay vacant until a tenant is found, once found say 700 jobs, will the roads be able to take all the commercial vehicles and staff cars as well as the residents vehicles? Ask keep thinking about how the perdestrians will get to Morrisons, have you tried walking their now? If a bridge is to be built over the motorway who will pay for this, could be a quarter of a million pound or more. Also can’t see how the surgery will cope with an extra potential 700 families, the car park in front of the new surgery is full now, where will these new patients park? I take it they will have to drive down the Havant Road ? On top of this I still can’t get my mind round what is going to happen to the wildlife, as you are concerned that the solar panel farm next door to this site will destroy the wildlife habitation then won’t it also be destroyed by this massive development. Please help me here Guy and put my mind at rest and the hundreds of other local people, that is the people who live in Horndean village, not in the fringes, the people who live and work in and immediately outside of The village. Thanks Guy.

    • Schools: Across Hampshire there are 0.3 primary school children par home. 700 new homes would result in 210 new primary school places or 210 children which covers 7 years and 30 kids per year. Actually this is just about right for a well balanced school. Secondary school provision is 0.21 places per home or about 147 children. Horndean Technology College currently is very under capacity and there is also capacity at other colleges offering specialist and vocational skills. These organisations will only benefit.

      Employment: The aim is to secure 1 job for every home and about 150 to 200 of these would be in the care home, school and shops. The aim is to consider the rest of the business development and the aspiration is for a trainig skills centre, some business start up, a number of smaller sized business units and an anchor business so there is a range of professional and other oportunities. Good sustainable development means that people can live and work in the same community so this will offer the ability to walk or cycle to work as happens with many businesses in Horndean, for example Keydell.

      Walking to Morrisons: I am not sure why you think a bridge is going to be built over the motorway, and would expect one to be closer to £5m than £250,000. there is a footbridge 200m south of the junction which leads to the heart of the LEOH development, using some of the developers contributions to make this part of a good local network of pedestrian access routes is one outcome that needs to follow from the development. The development needs to be well balanced and offer the right facilities to make it convenient. The shops near the school will offer most of the day to day needs and the majority of morrisons shopper I expect will drive as they currently do.

      The Surgery: for the benefit of other readers Steve has asked this one already and the answer is on this link here: https://horndeanmatters.com/2015/02/13/surgery-countdown-begins/

      Solar Farm: The blog article https://horndeanmatters.com/2014/07/10/solar-farm-proposal-emerges/ covers the solar farm and no I am not thrilled about the development of a solar farm. Quite simply though wherever we put our future housing needs it will affect farmland and have a visual impact. You are yet to tell me where we have missed brownfield development that can take our housing needs. You are also yet to tell me where the next best place to build is and the SHLAA site map with the available options is on a link on the blog. Land East Of Horndean is the ‘Least Worst Site’ and has the support of 95% of the community.

      So Steve, When do you step forward from ‘Interested resident’ to ‘political activist’ and what party are you going to be aligned with I wonder? Surely the community at large deserve to know the driving force behind your interest?

      • Ok Guy, lets all understand where i am comimg from and then you can also explain what party you support and the motives behind such support.
        I support no party at the moment as I consider most of them to be two faced, liers and only in it for their own financial gain.
        I will stick my neck out and say you run with George Hollingbery another chappy who does not live in the village, like yourself?
        Why are you so concerned that I may be a “political activist”? I am a concerned resident of Havant Road who feels having read all your support that you and your friends are pushing that you only want this massive development built as it will take the pressure of housing on your door step. By the way I support the closure of White Dirt lane, like yourself. You mentioned that if White Dirt Farm had been developed all the cars would drive through the Square, Guy some would be going in other directions as you have a motorway link near them and we are Only talking about a possible 135 vehicles.
        I am concerned because you keep on saying more than 95% want this development when I say you are hoodwinking them. You say, which I cant believe, that the cars and commercial vehicles will not come down Havant Road in and out of the Square, from this massive development. We could be talking about an extra 2000 vehicles. You say the school will cope, (I did not say the proposed school would not cope), but don’t tell us where the children will go when they leave the Infant School, what Junior School will they all go to, and how will they get there?.
        You say it will take 8 years , I say more like 15 years, based on how long it takes current builders based in Horndean, Clanfield and Waterlooville. Can you imagine what 15 years of lorries, commercial vehicles, dust, mud and disruption to the village will be like?. Can you tell us how the people in Havant Road and the village will cope.?
        You say the effect on wild life will be minimal, even when you object to the Solar farm, next door to this site, because it will effect the wild life, odd that when we all know that even sheep can graze where there are solar panels.
        Please Guy tell us all where will the following wildlife go so we can let our children know and our grandchildren:Fallow Deer, Roe Deer, Foxes,Badgers, Tawney Owls, Barn Owls,Kestrals, Sparrowhawks,Buzzards,Skylarks, Chaffinch,Blue Tit, Great Tit, Long Tailed Tit,Starlings,Sparrows, Wagtails, Swallows, Swifts, the butterflies Peacock Butterfly,Painted Lady, Marble White, Tortoiseshell,, Mallard, Mandarin Ducks, Herons, I can go on as you know because if you go to the areas where you want to build this massive development you will see all of these and much more. Guy, where will they go?
        You say that there will be shops near to the school which will serve the day to day needs, how many shops and do we know who wants to trade from there? (more commercial delivery vehicles)
        You admit most will drive to Morrisons, thanks for pointing out that a bridge would cost closer to £5m, i will agree with you as I beleive you are in the Building business? and would know these figures. Guy go there on a Friday and Saturday, its packed you can’t get anymore cars in their carpark, but if everone does drive lets hope they don’t all go the same time like a Friday and Saturday otherwise that means the roads will be blocked 6 days a week.
        You talk about employment but as you know you or rather EHDC and HDC are about to fall out over who builds what and where, and as some of the same individuals work for both where will this take us? so would you now start saying that the proposed commercial units will not get built but will be replaced by yet more housing?
        I will mention the surgery again which I think is a brillant idea and wish it all the success, but it will not be able to take the extra capacity, the car park alone even with a 2 hour restriction will not handle all the extra vehicles. You also know that some of the spaces are allocated for residents and commercial. As I said, Cowplain Surgery, which has a car park twice the size can’t cope.
        Guy we have had over 200 houses built in the village, in addition to those built off Rowlands Castle Rd, now you and your friend want to add another 700 minimal, again for the record I say this has disaster written all through it and Horndean will be an area to avoid and it will change for the worst for ever.
        Talk soon Guy.

      • Dear Steve, Thank you for the very lengthy reply.

        I am a Conservative District Councillor and the blog clarly states this but first and foremost I am a local resident who wants to ensure we get the best we can for our community.

        I have to say I thoroughly disagree with your views that we should build in other areas than LEOH and believe the community at large does too. I can see you are only against Land East Of Horndean but where is your structured and thought out plan B? Where would you see a school built and where will the funding come from as smaller development will not support this. How will you explain to residents about the massive increase in traffic in the village because Steve’s plan is not to build on Land East Of Horndean, but to put the new housing on the other sites the community do not want to see built out? you say you are concerned about a town turning into a village, the last green spaces we have inside the village are critical to keeping the semi rural identity.

        You state that I do not live in (the Village) of Horndean, but are very wrong. I have lived in Horndean for the last 7 years and my address is a matter of public record!

        You mis quote me on White Dirt Lane. I have never supported its closure but hope to see road safety improvements. Closing White Dirt Lane would only add traffic to Five Heads FOad and make this country lane more dangerous.

        You again mis quote me on traffic in the village. I do not say that the cars or lorries from Land East Of Horndean will not come through the square and never have. I have stated throughout this that LEOH, if approved, would have the least impact on the village of all of the other development options and in several replies to your other comments. This is clear to everyone I have spoken to, except for you.

        You state the Surgery will not be able to cope. I have now replied to two of your posts on other articles on this blog confirming the owners of the practice are happy it will, and the new larger premises will benefit from the additional residents. This is also stated clearly in the posts on the subject and in press released by the surgery, so why do you keep saying the surgery will not cope when you have already been corrected several times? who are you trying to convince? Why are you telling people something you know to be incorrect? Why would you do that?

        You state that some of the spaces in the Gales development carpark are allocated for residents – this is wrong. The carpark is for the Surgery, Spar, Nash Hall and little building by the carpark. Residents have allocated parking spaces in the development which is why the 2 hour limit will be important and needs to be brought in to prevent abuse by residents and the builders. The Surgery also has 6 spaces to the rear for its staff.

        I am sorry you feel White Dirt Farm and other sites in the parish of Horndean are better places to build. None of these will bring in community facilities on the scale that LEOH can if it is approved, and it is important to ensure the Councillors we have from the 8th May are active committed residents who will ensure the development is built out giving Horndean the best we can get.

        Steve, do let us know clearly what you plan is for our housing need instead. I’m interested to hear it… Where would you put the houses? Dont forget I have directed you to the SHLAA map and you can identify the reference numbers for the sites instead. Which ones Steve? Here is the link just to make it easy for you https://horndeanmatters.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/horndeanshlaa2014.pdf As none of these are large enough to fund a school, community building or the other community facilities we are looking at, how are you going to ensure these key facilities are designed in, Steve?

  7. Evening Guy, thanks for replying to some of my points raised but you didn’t re the Schooling, the loss of Wildlife and where to tell our children and grandchildren to go to see them, Conflict on the horizon between EHDC and HCC, where are all the 2000 Vehicles going, the Motorway Bridge, Morrisons being full already, the Surgery car parking, do you think 23 car spaces is enough for a surgery that will have to look after a further mimimum 700 people?, (could be double that) with the best will in the world they, so you say, say they can cope, where will everyone be able to park , how will ambulances get in and out when called? Guy I don’t have a plan b I don’t even have a plan a, if I worked at it like you clearly do each and every day I think I would have. Do you have a plan b if this massive proposal gets turned down.? Your the man with his finger on the pulse, I’m merely a concerned village resident. Thank you for saying you are to. Guy have you read the Objections which are increasing daily on EHDC web?. Guy, I say that we can still have a school on LEOH, ( but don’t know how the children will get to a junior school!) we can still have a vastly scaled down housing project on LEOH, say max 100, we can still have open spaces and social areas on LEOH. That way we can also have the wildlife which everyone can enjoy for centuries to come and much more. But we won’t have Grid locked roads, antisocial behaviour and bricks and mortar everywhere,we won’t have a surgery that can’t cope with its car parking let alone it’s patients,we won’t have a superstore ,which is at capacity now, jammed with cars and people trying to get served. Regards Steve s

  8. Guy, please be more accurate with your comments such as

    ” Land East Of Horndean is the ‘Least Worst Site’ and has the support of 95% of the community ”

    Hazelton Farm had overwhelming support, Pyle Farm very little and land north of RC road had none at the last EHDC “consultation” ( See the map on your blog) I don’t think I’m the only one to feel betrayed by our Councillors and MP falling over themselves to support this application. To say that all three sites makes the scheme viable is just pandering to the developers whose one and only aim in life is to maximise their profits.

    A couple of other points.

    Have you been to the Whitley M27 exits at the morning and evening rush hours? Hundreds of cars backing up onto the motorway from the slip roads trying to get off. The Horndean junction is bad enough as it is without introducing cars from 700 homes. The developers proposal to tinker with this junction will not improve it one iota.

    Are our Councillors so naive as to think that the other developers will pack their bags if this scheme is approved.

    Why is WDF so sacred, it’s built up on three sides already just as the Gales Park site was and I don’t recall any major objections to that being built upon. I wonder who lives opposite who don’t want to loose their rural views!!

  9. Hi Len, thank you for the comment, I am normally very careful to say 90% of the community supported Hazleton and Pyle Farms at the where to build consultation. there have also been a number of polls on the blog here about should land east of horndean be built on, and the response was 95% in favour.

    I accept there are people who are against Land East Of Horndean and that is fine, I honestly do not feel there is a better option but I respect your different views.

    The 700 homes is about a 15 % increase in the parish and yes, will be an increase in traffic on the roads. While our population grows and we have a housing need we need to plan this in, and it is a case of looking for the least worst place. As LEOH is adjacent to the motorway junction it has the least impact of all the options.

    No, I do not think I or other Councillors are being naive with this. First off we have a good understanding of the process where the local plan is developed and the allocations plan identifies the sites that are built on. For Horndean this is Land East Of Horndean and there is then no legal basis to accept any more housing outside of the settlement policy boundary. Yes, we will be able to send Developers off and that EHDC are currently refusing planning applications demonstrates this is the case. If you like I will be happy to spend time over a coffee and go through the process.

    Gales Park site. Actually, you are not correct. EHDC objected to the development of that field. The landscape impact was a concern and it was felt the impact of the housing would be harmful to the village. The decision was overturned by the planning inspector. White Dirt Farm is on a steep slope, and building out would have enormous landscape impact. It is also a strategic gap to keep the villages of Horndean, Clanfield and Catherington apart. I dont think anyone opposite wishes to loose their rural views but fortunately for the homes there there was good planning reason not to build on the farm. and, no, I do not live opposite White Dirt Farm and I can not see it from my home.

    Len, I am very happy to spend time with anyone who is interested and concerned about the community, let me know if you are interested.


    • Evening Guy, will you be at Hazleton Farm this Friday 27 March at 9.30am, when EHDC employees meet to have a chat and walk around the field trying to visualise what 700 Homes, industrial units,a school a couple of shops, a care home and 2000 cars on drives, half on pavements and any bits of green left and then picture the motorway slip roads grid locked with all sorts of vehicles at the same time imagining the silence of no wildlife. If you are remember not to show any emotion or they will tar and feather you.O yes Guy don’t forget election day is nearly upon us. I am trying to add humour as I believe nothing can be taken seriously any more when it involves planners and the people who say they support the local population yet mislead them by distorting the facts.

      • Steve, I am not on the planning committee so no, will not be at the site visit. The committee will view the site, listen to the comments and make what they feel is the right decision without any help from me.

        As to injecting humour why dont you be honest, that is not your intention and I am very happy for readers of this blog to form their view on the way information has been presented and if it is transparent, or misleading.

        As you mention transparency, tell us more about why you moved into Gales Park, a new development that is a stones throw away from the centre of the village. A field that used to have occasional deer, wildlife and provided important green space in the centre of our community. This was a field that EHDC and the community objected against building on but were overturned by the planners. every single argument you apply to LEOH is equally applied to the estate where you are now. The fact is that we need new homes for our own population as it grows, and LEOH represents the least worst place for us to put them. Ironic that a new occupant to a new estate in the village is objecting to the next development. Very much like the problems in Clanfield where the new purchasers there objected to the community facilities that were then being built to support the local area.

        So, Steve you have not answered my question when as this trail of comments shows I have responded to hundreds of yours.

        1) Where do we put our housing needs? I have guided you to the SHLAA map, just tell us what the better plan is Steve.
        2) You kept saying we should build on brownfield land and were going to tell us where it all is. Where is it Steve that we have missed?
        3) LEOH can withstand the funding for a new school. How are you going to fund a new school Steve when you do not support Lane East Of Horndean?
        4) You are particularly concerned about the kids getting to Horndean Technology College from LEOH. How are they going to get to HTC from the sites you identify Steve?
        5) LEOH if approved would add the least traffic to the village as it is on a motorway junction. What would you do to alleviate the far greater impact of filling in all of the open spaces in the rest of the Parish to meet our housing needs there instead?

        Come on Steve, if you disagree with the plans for LEOH, I have no problem with that, but tell us what your alternative workable plan is…

      • Morning Guy, I have said several times now I don’t have a plan I never did have one,I wish I had, I wish I had my finger on the pulse like you. I asked you if you had an alternative plan if this massive plan gets refused. I asked you if you had read all the objections on the EHDC web site.
        Gales Park is built on a very open sloping field with trees around the outside and a large oak tree off centre, none of the trees has been removed. It only has 60 homes, now increased by a further 15 as the builder did not keep to the agreed 106!. This site is very similar to WDF site.
        Because the government say we need these houses we all just have to sit back and agree and you and your local MP friend go along with it. I say we don’t, we don’t need all these houses. Close the boarders, you have not made a comment on this suggestion. I also say yes build some homes of say 100 and spread the rest but we don’t need 700. I have not looked at where the possibility of Brownfiels sites could be to take home but you and your friend know where they are, but we don’t need to build 700 house. The surgery will not cope but you say a 2 hour waiting limit will allow all these new residents access, yet once in how do the get out, the entrance is dangerous now. Where will an ambulance park if called upon?
        Guy I know your not on the planning but I would have thought that for someone who is so determined to get this site built you would pop your head on the field come this Friday. Guy are you in the building game?

      • Ok Steve.

        The objective of the Allocations plan is to ensure that development is controlled in planned locations. The community view was very clear in support of one strategic development at Hazleton and Pyle Farms and not a piecemeal approach over the rest of the Parish (which you prefer). The allocation plan means that location is Plan A, B and C. If the application is not successful then the developer will need to go away, consider the reasons why it was rejected and then submit an application that addresses those concerns. That is how it works up and down the country.

        Gales Park. ‘The developer did not keep to the agreed 106″. At this point you are just so utterly wrong. The Gales Park site had to contain provision for a Doctors Surgery if the surgery wanted to move across into the new development. The Surgery, supported by the patients group and community at large, felt the Gales Centre redevelopment was their preferred location which comes with the 6 surgery spaces to the back of the building for the staff, plus the spaces to the front for patients and the Spar customers. I do think you know the surgery is moving into this development and that is the reason they did not need the site on the Gales Park development. The Gales Park site had to keep the option open for 2 years, and I think they infact kept it open for 3 or more years, only submitting revised plans when it was clear the surgery would move into the Gales Brewery development. It is so important Steve to keep to facts and truth.

        You are totally correct that the Gales Park site is like the WDF site. Both were not wanted by EHDC as they would be very harmful to the landscape which is why EHDC refused both. Sadly the planning inspector allowed the Gales Park site on appeal.

        “Because the government say we need these houses” – WRONG. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. EHDC carried out a SHMA – Strategic Housing Markes Assessment” which looks at our own population, and our future needs to 2028. It works out how many homes we need for our children to give a hope of building enough to prevent demand outstripping supply and a hope some of them can buy into the community or return from other cheaper communities where they have bought their first home there instead. It looks at the housing we need for our increasingly elderly pupulation, frequently with just one adult very much outliving another, and the need to downsize, release equity, and perhaps live near a care home with support for them while still keeping independant. It also looks at how families now live. There are fewer people living in a home on average now than 10 years ago. people want their independance and private space which is also driving a need for new homes.

        Horndean has about 5,200 homes and needs about 75 new homes a year – a 1.5% increase per year between now and 2028 which is when the LEOH development would take us up to. Over half of this is due to population increase. Before you state this is due to immigration, no, it is not, EHDC has considered the pressure on housing needs based on what is happening in our own community, not elsewhere. The other half is for elderley people to down size into and to build the first time buyer homes we have not in the last 10 years.

        Your plan of 100 homes over the period from now to 2028 would mean we build just 7 homes per year in horndean. How, Steve, do you get to that figure? Where, Steve, will our children buy their first homes? What will you do about the spiraling house prices Steve? How will you explain to elderly people that they have nowhere to downsize to with semi disabled facilities, level ground floor accommodation and equity release Steve?

        I have no problem with you not liking LEOH Steve, but you have no plan B. I can cope with you feeling 700 homes is too much over the next 14 years, but your thoughts would not allow people to live and stay in the community. I can fully agree with the desire to build on brownfield land only, but, Steve, we have none no matter how many times you bring it up.

        Finally, Yes, as you know I work in the Construction Industry. It is a matter of public record and has been declared very clearly on this blog and at public meetings. I work for a firm called Bouygues Construction (South Central). This gives me plenty of good experience to deal with developers and make sure we can put forward strong arguments to ensure our community gets the best we can. The company I work for are not developers, we do not buy land for housing, and I am not even aware of any projects we have built in EHDC, ever. Out of interest, our company built the Mary Rose Museum and have worked elsewhere in the dockyard. We are building science and technology colleges in Fareham at the moment and have a long track record of student accommodation in Southampton and Portsmouth.

  10. Guy all I can say is you must have the patience of a saint to read and reply to all this twaddle about LEOH .
    Nobody wants houses built in their area by choice but it must be obvious to all but the most dense of people that with a population growing by 500,000 per year over the last decade and set to continue to rise that we need to build houses for them to live in.
    At the public meeting the residents of Horndean show their overwhelming desire that of homes had to be built it should be on Hazleton and Pyle Farms .
    No one was hoodwinked they saw the proposals and the maps just as I did and voted accordingly , in fact if you look on East hants planning portal at this application you will see that although there are objections the supports far outweigh them .
    If you look at other applications in the area you will see this level of support is unprecedented, therefore as we live in a supposed democracy this application should be passed .
    As for brown field sites , thanks to ridiculous planning policy in the past there are very few left !
    Why do some people insist on trying to cram more houses into areas that are already built up creating extra traffic on existing roads and houses so close together that you can hardly walk between them .
    Of course people don’t like to see green fields being built on because they fear for the loss of wildlife and open space , for a start every house in horndean or anywhere else for that matter was built on land that was once open field .
    Also less than 10% of the uk is built on and that includes roads parks and gardens , this site borders the south downs national park 631 square miles of protected countryside , what do people think will happen to the wildlife , it will of course migrate the 50 yards into the national park area .
    On top of that from what I can see of the plan this site leaves nearly 50% open space . Given the choice I think I would rather live in spaced out housing with open areas of ground around them than in housing squeezed into a so called brown field site .
    As for facilities being delivered its a fact that if they are included in a signed s106 agreement then they have to be provided unless perhaps the council decide the don’t want certain things at a later date , it’s not up to the developer .
    This site is the best place for development in horndean it has the best access it impacts the least on the village , the overwhelming majority are for it !
    I by the way am not a councillor or a developer just a local resident , given the choice no one would have any development anywhere but with the population increase it obvious houses need to be built and this is the best place .
    Rant over , it’s just annoying that a few nimby’s and do gooders try to overthrow the majorities view .

    Keep up the good work Guy and don’t let the Nimby’s get you down !

    • Stephen James i do feel sorry for you that you had to read so much twaddle as you put it in your diatribe. I agree that your friend Guy S does some good work for some of the people but if it was not for the lies and skulduggery we have had to endure over the past 12 months we would not be boring you with all these increasing objections. You sir are being lead like sheep and you believe all the crapchat put out by your local councillor and his partner our local MP. Please allow us to have our thoughts and opinions. I say the population is only increasing at such a demanding level due to our open boarders. Do you agree or not that we have an open door policy that should be closed or do you agree that we should allow more and more people through our boarders. Do you really belive we are all producing more children at such a rate that we need to cover every parcel of green field in concrete and tar. Please Stephen James come back.to our planet.Do you really believe by having a 106 in place a developer will stick to it, open.your eyes, take your head out of the ground and stop acting like a nimby, like you accuse all us objectors of being, we agree on building but not to this magnitude.

      • Steve. It is one thing to bait me but please keep your comments polite and respectful, in particular to other people posting their views. Describing other visitors posts as ‘diatribe’ (ironic, coming from you) and inviting them to ‘Come back to our planet’ is not polite conduct and unnecessary.

    • Thank you Steve for the objective views and support. I fully agree no one was hoodwinked and the consultations and information on this blog present fact and people can then form their own views. Happily “Steve Sykes” is firmly in the minority. Guy.

      • Sorry Guy if I offended anyone, never intend to do that. Apologies to anyone offended by my remarks from the heart, but I just speak the truth and say it as I see it.no hoodwinking no skulduggery. Just genuine concerns about the area I live in, yes build but build within reason and not to this magnitude, yes in my back garden but put it in others too.

      • Took the trouble to attend site with the elders of EHDC planers yesterday, done job I would say even though one of the elders asked if it was one Infant schoo!! some were gazing at the sky and others chatting amongst themselves,8 walked to the other end of the field, 5 took two cars, I followed on foot. As I have said before if Portsmouth Water Board are satisfied this will go ahead and we will all suffer. I belive Portsmouth Water will be put under pressure in order to try and get this concrete and tar site passed before election day, if so could be downfall for some of the sheep!

  11. Hi Guy, have you been away? No reply to last couple of questions from.you or your other supporters.? Looks like Linden Homes in Horndean are trying to encourage purchasers from London Guildford areas, so much for Homes for the locals then? What do you and your friends think Guy?. Also as all the litter could be increasing due to all these new developments in Our area we are arranging a Picking Up morning on April 12 starting at 11am, hoping to get local press there to. Hate to think what the area will be like if the concrete and tar mass does get built at Hazleton and Pyle Farms and now possibility of even more at Rowlands Castle. GUY, can’t we all just start saying No to what the government, the council and the developers say we have to have. Isn’t it all just getting a bit silly now. Just think what a result for you it could be if you stood up and said enough.is enough. What do you think Guy?

    • Steve, responsible governance means that we work out wht our housing need is, and that we make sure we plan for it to allow infrastructure to grow in place with it. ror the period to 2028 Land East Of Horndean works out at a 1.5% increase per year in our housing which is what we need to allow for homes to down size into, to give our young people a chance to buy their first homes, and to cater for our own needs. I understand that you don’t like this, but your plan for just 8 new homes a year over the same period just means we will not have the right homes for our own needs. By your own admission you have no plan A, plan B or alternatives to ensure we plan ahead. Rowlands castle have to plan in their own housing too and, again, are looking at the same sort of percentage increase as Horndean.

      I could stand up and oppose LEOH but would loose the battle as we have a housing need. I can stand up and make sure that if it happens that we get the best facilities we can get, and this is wht I am doing.

      The litter pick sounds like a great idea. If you have details I will be very pleased to support and advertise it on the blog.

  12. Thank you Guy, litter Pick Up is on Streetwise and looks like quite a few will be out with their bags and gloves on the 12 April for an hour or so and every Sunday if need be. I also read that EHDC are upping their responsibilities so we could be working along side them. Don’t know where you got 8 houses a year from? You say we have a housing need, we don’t! You have seen Linden Homes advertising to people living in London and Guildford, hardly local people. A fair few of the people who have purchased where I live,we’re not locals. So this story you and others put out is not correct. I say build in.my back garden but reduce the numbers and spread the reduced build around. We are being dictated to by councils and government officials and profit hungry developers. You are aware that more and more developers are paying councils toget out of building affordable Housing? You are aware that a 3 bed house cost less than £100.000 to build but are being sold Now for over £300,000. A 4 bed would cost slightly over £100,000 to build but will sell Now for over £400,000. Massive massive profits for the profit hungry developers hence they like selling to people who are not local.Roll on May day.

    • Steve, the 8 homes a year came from your view that 100 homes a year were suitable. Over the 14 year plan period this is just 8 homes a year. You tell the elderly community we do not have a need to build downsizing homes for them, they will tell you we do. You tell the young people in our community we don’t have a need to build for them, they will tell you we do. Sorry, Steve, but you are as plain wrong as you can be.

      I have no doubt that linden are advertising in Guildford. I have no doubt that they are advertising their Horndean development in Guildford too. What are you looking to do Steve, only allow people who live in Horndean buy in Horndean? What about the families that want to move out. Will they be allowed to?

      The fact is that all of the adjacent planning authorities are allowing for increased development at a rate of about 1.5% per year so there is no colossal influx of people from one area to another. Didn’t you say in an earlier post you had lived in about 6 different areas? Is it ok for you to move into Horndean from outside then but no one else….

  13. Yes I will be there, Guy I have moved around, when we not faced with Councillors and government bods forcing issues on us and saying we need more houses. This is rubbish and your bit about older people downsizing and the young wanting houses has always been the case since we moved out of caves. I am saying we need to close the boarders, do you agree? and build houses but on a vast reduced scale and spread it about. Do you want Horndean to become Town? Is this your aim Guy?

  14. Great news in The News today 14/04/2015, page 11, a Michael Homewood has written to the Secretary of State asking for this massive development to be reviewed and it may get called in, not a done deal then possible ? Let’s really hope that finally common sense prevails at last

  15. Interesting that Mr Homewood has not been quoted in the article giving a workable alternative to LEOH which would deliver the same community benefits like school, units for the elderly, sports facilities, community building, allotments, employment zone…. Is he still in denial that Horndean has to build these houses and it’s wasted energy to rail against it at this stage? That time has long gone. How many times does it have to be said that building several smaller developments will deliver zero community benefits to Horndean?

    • Hi Jan, spot on and that’s it in a nutshell. There is no viable plan B, the objectors even acknowledge they don’t have one! Responsible governance means we plan ahead for our needs and LEOH now approved does this. Thanks for the sensible input! Guy.

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